Yay finally a forum

Of course I have a overly literal definition of win...because by most of the hardcore "OMG, PAY 2 WIN" people, paying for your internet to play the game is considered P2W. By my definition, if there is an alternative way for FREE, it is not considered P2W. Closest and ONLY thing I would even consider P2W is the Ascension ability researching....but, even then, I don't have to invest money into, just time.

 

Sony/Daybreak have done a pretty good job over the years of walking that fine line between true pay-to-win (things you pay real money for that you can't get the equivalent or better of in game) and pay-to-speed-up (paying real money for convenience and shortcuts). Even things like the housing portals to new zones are able to be placed in houses that are open to everyone (the premium infusers are questionable, but I don't have enough in-depth knowledge with all of the various levels of infusers to know one way or the other if they are something that can't be countered with in-game items).

The thing I'm seeing more of is *player* required spending. It's not the game that is making someone pay for ascension spell upgrades or infusing, it's the player themselves or the people they play with. A lot of folks say that because it's in there, the pressure to use it is high or they are "forced" to use the shortcuts, but ultimately the choice comes back to the player. As many have said, the game is playable without most of these real-money items; even end-game stuff can become open to the most casual player with enough time. It's our own desire to get there first and fast and soon that makes the pay stuff so appealing. I can't blame any company for playing to that need.

(Disclaimer: I don't necessarily see subscribing as pay-to-win, as there have to be some advantages to continuing to support the game or no one would do it. I also know there are varying definitions folks have of "pay to win", so this is just my opinion and the way I approach the game. Your mileage may vary.)

 

Ok, so we're just hung up on the terminology. Let's pretend I hadn't said P2W, lets say I said P2A (pay to advance). But having an alternative way for free doesn't mean it isnt pay-to-whatever. If the free route means it will take you 3 months to do X, and the paid version you can do it in 1 week or even 1 month, that's a big deal in the grand scheme of things, since expansions only last 1 year.

But anyways, regardless of the above - how would you feel about:

Which, I mean this is how I see things trending, based on what we've seen so far, and the general lack of pushback from the playerbase. Maybe it won't happen, but this is how I see things in 2 years based on what DBG has done thus far.

 

Considering membership credits you 5 dollars of DBC, your second quote, I could get that free pretty much...I paid for membership, not DBC. So while you are paying 5 dollars for it, my membership bought me 1 of those things. Time wise, I honestly don't think ANYONE cares who got <this item> before <this person> in X amount of time.

I am just wanting to know what there is in EQ2 that HAS to be paid for that you cant do by investing time.

 

My main point though was conversation like this to where we don't agree just come off as toxic. That is why I was suggesting topics such as that should stay on official forums. Otherwise, this might as well be official forums 2.0.

 

So, people on a forum should agree all the time? What's the point in that?
In all honesty, what you ad user01 are doing is probably the very essence of a discussion forum, leaving out the fact that this is rehashing/picking up an old argument.
And as long as it's civilized and you can eventually agree to disagree, this is way healthier than having threads that went slightly off-topic closed all the time.

 

No, not saying that we should agree all the time. There are just certain subjects that have been argued over and over and over that just aren't appealing on a forum that makes people leave (Like, kinda notice how people signed up over here and are glad to be off official forums). At what point does it ever come to a point where both sides agree to disagree? Usually, it is a broken record that keeps trying to convince one side that they don't see it how they do (not that they are right or wrong).