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They Break Winter Extravaganza?

Discussion in 'EverQuest II General Discussion' started by Liv, Dec 18, 2018.

  1. Tekka

    Tekka Active Member

    I don't think it's too black and white to be as objective and factual as possible when it comes to aspects that should be objective and factual. I also recognize there are grey areas in almost everything. Even in some maths. (take that math nerds!)

    I also love discussion, and to learn why folks think the things they do. I'm open to the notion that I could be (and often am) wrong - just show me the evidence. It just so happens that I also state things with a reasonable amount of confidence. ;)




    What does 'in development' mean if it's been going for 2 years, with no approved plan?

    As for EQNext, I enjoyed what lore/stories were released, but kind of tuned out when dark elves (or whatever they were calling them) showed up with dragon horns. They're already sticky enough.



    I agree, nostalgia is a powerful thing. And I think nostalgia is going to bite a couple titles that are in development on the butt. Folks think they want the old school days, when what they want is to feel like they did in the old school days - different things.

    I think if a new company, that had an actual interest in game development, could be convinced to buy the Norrath IP, nostalgia alone could create a moderately successful title with a devoted fan base. So long as the development and release were handled properly. Unfortunately the corporate shenanigans (both of them) have become intrinsically associated for a lot of folks with the EverQuest name.

    That being said, if such a thing did happen, I would mostly likely purchase that game - with cautious optimism.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  2. Fuli

    Fuli Well-Known Member

    Agreed - I know I annoy some people with with my speculating, but speculating is fun :)

    I love puzzles that involve information assymetries, thats why I dig conversations like this.

    However, as someone with a long career in which making strategic predictions and forecasts are a part of my responsibilities, I am adept at disclaiming said predictions and forecasts with weasle words so I look great when things turn out as predicted, and cautious when they don't.

    #veteranforareason
     
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  3. Feldon

    Feldon Administrator Staff Member

    EQNext had 30-40 staffers sitting around creating ideas for months without a cohesive plan. In the case of EQ3, we can only speculate, but with Lauren is running EQ and EQ2 day-to-day that should leave Holly enough time to consult with people within the company and investigate possibilities. My info is pretty old so who knows, maybe a team has been formed and begun working.
    There's a big difference between buying an idea and buying a finished shipping product. If someone bought Daybreak today, not only do they not have an EQ3, but they may not have a fully formed idea for EQ3 and may not have the staff/talent needed to deliver on such a plan, and with the financials swinging out in the wind, they may not be able to attract the staff/talent needed to deliver.

    It's like buying Netflix before they had a streaming service. It all sounds good on paper, but is there a path to profitability? They'd basically just be buying the name and the existing products which have a shelf life (DVD rentals anyone?).​
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
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  4. Feldon

    Feldon Administrator Staff Member

    cash_grab.jpg
     
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  5. Tekka

    Tekka Active Member



    I appreciate your input - both the informative bits, and the speculative bits. You have, over the years, had enough 'insider' insight into how things work to make both valuable. As non-communicative DBG has been on many aspects - not just EQ2 - I guess we won't know for sure until/unless someone from The Team updates the information. I must admit, I am curious to see if EQ3 will become an actual thing under DBG.

    As for an IP purchase, I think it might actually be beneficial not to have a finished product - or even one that's started, but unfinished, like DBG got. You have the IP - the important part - from which you can glean the bits that folks have liked for the past 20 years (in all 3 games, a lot of folks forget OA), and leave behind the baggage (or try to). I'm not a game developer, or investor, or anything like that, so it's just my speculation as a previous (long time) customer, and what I'd be willing to pay for.
     
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  6. Feldon

    Feldon Administrator Staff Member

    Certainly if someone bought the company now, they could come in, pick out the best people from the EQ and EQ2 teams, maybe get some alumni back, and then start afresh on what EQ3 really *should* be without the baggage. A semi-clean break.

    As for EQ and EQ2, I'd bring in a tools programmer for each game and give them a year to come up with designer tools that make things less painful for designers. I'd add 2-3 new mechanics/systems designers geniuses to bring some fresh ideas in.

    I'd set a soft target date for public beta of EQ3 at 30 months out. I'd pick a popular engine like UE4, Unity, etc. and try to use as much off-the-shelf stuff as I can. I'd also add fresh blood to the platform/ops team and start working on migrating to a new SSO system that supports Oauth and embrace APIs and Census. I'd put together a new Community team that doesn't report to Marketing and is empowered to hold the Game teams accountable.
     
    • Like Like x 4
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  7. omuteef

    omuteef New Member

    I have to agree with Tekka on this having a unfinished product gives any new buyer the ability to make the game how they feel best to make it there way and not stuck with a pile of garbage. I do have a feeling and yes it is just a feeling that EQ3 has been in development for atleast a year and have a small staff of a round 15 working on it. All speculation of course
     
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  8. omuteef

    omuteef New Member

    The team could easily use alot of assest from EQ2/EQ like some quests dungeon designs mob and NPC designs. Even though they would be building a game from the ground up on a new engine they have a vast library to take from.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Fuli

    Fuli Well-Known Member

    The reddit post mentioned that eq3 was going to compete with Pantheon and be the first fantasy genre mmorpg to feature battle royal and arena mode environments.

    Well, if that is true, they blew it again. AoC has been in active development a little under two years, and they've managed to create all that plus large scale pve and pvp as a f2p download (cash shop = cosmetics/fluff only). BR is currently active, other modes are incoming in conjunction with the overall development road map.

    The is an environment for testing purposes, and illustrates at least four things:

    (1) Intrepid understands the mmorpg market, DBG does not.

    (2) Intrepid understands how to promote its title, DBG does not.

    (3) DBG management can not get **** to market in a timely fashion even when it wants to do something.

    (4) Intrepid unferstands how to enable productive feedback environments, DBG does not.


     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
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  10. Feldon

    Feldon Administrator Staff Member

    "We're going to compete with X" should never enter your vocabulary when designing a game.
     
    • Agree Agree x 11
  11. RhodrisNZ

    RhodrisNZ Active Member

    A great discussion here, guys, and so refreshing that we are able to have it without it being stifled.

    I know a grand total of 0 about game design etc, so have no comment about that to make, but I've seen the progression of other games to sunset. I think there may be a kernel or two of truth to the reddit thing.
     
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  12. Meneltel

    Meneltel Active Member

    Stifle! Stifle! Ban! Banish! Block! Edit! Stifle! Denied! Refused! You are wrong! *sticks fingers into ears and begins to scream* Nyaa nyaa nyaa nyaa! I cant hear you! (Just copying the OF moderators and their actions)
     
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  13. Fuli

    Fuli Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
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  14. omuteef

    omuteef New Member

    The fact is its all speculation but its speculation being drawn from not only a Reddit post that may or may not be true but the way DB has gone and essential removed 10000 paying subscribers in 2 years as who ever bought he life time sub will be playing for free in 2 years. Of course i must also add that the post from the EQ1 dev from last week holds some small truth about how things are being run on that title as well as it seems its a very very small group with no love from the big bosses to add more Devs.
     
  15. Feldon

    Feldon Administrator Staff Member

    ALL-ACCESS-PASS_618837_1.jpg

    Schlag has created a classic with that.
     
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  16. omuteef

    omuteef New Member

    I saw that one as well on Massive i think i peed a bit when i saw it
     
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  17. Dizzy

    Dizzy Active Member

    The MMO/MMORPG genre in my opinion is under going a new round of change. The players tastes seemed to have changed as well. How an EQ3 if it was every bought to life would fit in I am not sure, nor what it would have to be as a game design to garner customers/players.

    We should create a separate thread on the changing face of MMO's.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Sweatypie

    Sweatypie Active Member

    I hope Kander will produce EQ3 because he is amazing at communicating with his customer base (the people who pays his bills) and have done a wonderful job of being the producer of eq2. We got a lot of great content out of him and original great ideas.

    The one thing I like especially is the powercreep. BiS geared tank at 90 had 65k health, a tank in the newest expansion after a month has 155 million health. Or the 500 different advancement system tacked upon each other so its impossible to do any sort of class balancing.

    What a time to be alive. Lets pray.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018
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  19. omuteef

    omuteef New Member

    I think DB had 2 choices 3 years ago

    A Use there resources at hand to fix the game, balance the classes and try and bring back subscribers they lost over the years.
    B Add ascensions and micro transactions so that there current subscribers would spend real money upgrading them then milk them for everything they could.

    DB chose to go with option B.
    Im not a fan of kander but i dont think this is all on hes head
     
  20. Neiloch

    Neiloch Member

    I still dont get why people are hot on 'Pantheon' it looks like a some how worse and slower version of Vanguard.

    "Did you think EverQuest gameplay and combat pre-luclin was too fast paced? We present Pantheon! A place where you get nothing done on your own and you kill 1 mob every 4 minutes even in a group!"

    AoC just looks kind of sloppy and ever since I learned the founder had hard on for ArcheAge and some 'unrealized' concepts it had which was hot garbage I wasn't exactly inspired. Games that DO sell box's with no sub yield to selling 'power' on cash shops. Even Warframe does it with a total F2P model but only skates because premium currency can be traded and the power can be earned, however painfully, through gameplay. When you have to create PvE content on the regular the 'fortnite' model isn't gonna cut it especially since its extremely unlikely it will be as popular. If it needs a sub the acronym 'F2P' shouldn't enter into it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2018

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