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The wool over the eyes is getting thinner.

Discussion in 'EverQuest II General Discussion' started by Zynt, May 13, 2020.

  1. Tkia

    Tkia Active Member

    And it's not just spells. They've got extensive particle effects on damn near everything now. Back when I was still raiding I had to crank down to almost extreme performance not just to reduce the lag but just to be able to see my cursor so I could target things! I've never understood how people can manage to play in that blinding whirl of particle fog. :confused:
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  2. Mermut

    Mermut Well-Known Member

    If they actually used beta testing for ACTUAL testing where they made changes, it wouldn't be a awful thing. Beta testing, isn't really beta testing, however. It's merely an exercise is bug-finding.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. Tkia

    Tkia Active Member

    They'll never go back to this though. As Fuli pointed out, having discovered how many idiots will pay to beta test for them there's no way they're going to go back to selective beta testing by people with a track record of actually, you know, TESTING stuff. All you've got is fat wallets trying to get a jump on strats and whining in general chat about the bugs they find ruining their playtime instead of bothering to report them. :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 3
  4. Mermut

    Mermut Well-Known Member

    They get plenty of bug reports. That's not the real issue though.
    Beta testing in every other game I've beta tested for isn't JUST for bugs though. It also for testing, and ADJUSTINGS, mechanics, balance, etc
    It's been clear for years now that the devs are not interested in feedback about balance and mechanics during beta. They've gotten downright hostile about it several times. They want us to find bugs and either praise or shut up about everything else.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  5. Glasscannon

    Glasscannon Member

    I saw that Benny made a thread which wonders if the problem with EQ is that the F2P is too generous. I mean, good God.
     
    • Like Like x 3
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    • Shocked Shocked x 1
  6. Fuli

    Fuli Well-Known Member

    Yeah, DW kicked him in the fruits for derailing the t1 dps thread, so he generously opened TWO threads to explore his deeply insightful theories about fixing eq2's pricing model.

    The other one posed the question: Are eq2's generous in-game illusions cannibalizing fluff sales in the cash shop?
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Shocked Shocked x 1
  7. Tkia

    Tkia Active Member

    Not only is he starting these junk threads but he now seems to be talking to himself by responding to his own posts.o_O
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
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    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. Errrorr

    Errrorr Active Member

    Lets see how it works by posting into a Benito thread with some truths;

     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Agree Agree x 4
  9. Wulfgyr / Erytheal

    Wulfgyr / Erytheal Active Member

    Regarding subscriptions, $14.99/mo (or $12.99/mo if you go 6 mo at a time) seems to work fine for FF:XIV and WoW.

    There’s probably an economy of scale at work though- pretty sure their population is larger/healthier than EQ2s.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Endymion

    Endymion Active Member

    As annoying as I find them, I don't think they're wrong here. F2P started out restricted in some annoying ways, then they lifted those restrictions and as usually happens with SOE/DBG the pendulum swung too car in the other direction. But you can't put the genie back in the bottle so instead of making stuff like masters or fabled gear restricted again you get GMs/ancients and prestige gear. Which still isn't enough to get people to sub I guess.

    These days I'd personally struggle to sub to EQ2 just because the expansions are anemic and content throughout the year likewise. I can putz around the world and see what I want just fine for free, and a lot of players are the same way. Though I don't want the team to lose their jobs, I also can't rationalize paying a sub compared to games like FFXIV or ESO which produce a lot more content for the same price (and even those I only sub to for a month every half year or so, the days of being continually subbed to an MMO are gone for me).
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 2
  11. Clementine

    Clementine Active Member

    EQ2 absolutely has the worst free to play model I've ever seen. It's generous in all the wrong ways and makes no attempts to monetize the game in the right ways. Instead it uses mobile game mtx to make up the difference.

    I think the real problem here is, even if the game was sub-only there's no proof Daybreak would be willing to roll back mtx, they're too invested in harvesting "whales" now. Just look at Rivervale. Honestly I really don't think Daybreak wants to save EQ2, I think they'll run it into the ground to save EQ1 and once EQ2 is dead they'll kill EQ1 with the exact same garbage. Unless another entity buys EQ I firmly believe that it's days are numbered.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  12. Wulfgyr / Erytheal

    Wulfgyr / Erytheal Active Member

    I can see both sides of the argument (putting aside my instinctual "Oh god, not THEM again" initial reaction) - my issue is more they start off with a premise and makes some statements that may or may not (usually not, imo) have a factual basis. Which is fine, discussion from multiple perspectives is always good. Where I tend to go off the rails a bit is when the initial premise is "Should we (who is this we? Are you part of DPB?) restrict F2P to generate more subscription revenue?", and lists a bunch of reasons why the F2P model is ruining the game. Spends 18 minutes editing after the initial post (typical for that author), and then replies to themselves 4 minutes after that.

    And after the first dissenting response, immediately replies that "I personally would prefer to keep it as is myself." WTF?!? What is your position, then!? It's literally like an Internet version of "please talk to me, I want to be your friend." Throw in a bunch of fancy $5 words that oftentimes don't apply, and a few more topic forks with a dash of passive-aggressive language, and you have the Benito-troll. Oft characterized by a series of one-line or disjointed, single sentence statements that they try to portray as facts.

    Like Endymion said - they may actually have a point here (which is why I reported the comments in the T1 DPS thread and recommended they be broken out into a separate discussion), but the manner in which they are presented tends to undermine it from the get-go. I think the WoW level 20 limit was mentioned earlier (not sure on if there's a time limit). FFXIV has an unlimited time trial period, but limits you to level 35. I completely ignored the other thread they started, as my Benito-meter was already pegging for the day - combined with seeing something about "cosmetic" meant it went into the gray matter "spam folder." :p
     
  13. Castegyre

    Castegyre Active Member

    I think it's a very complicated balancing act as to what people consider a good value to sub for in these games. As I see it the first real problem is a game that decides to be a hybrid sub/ftp model. Pick one and do it right. It can be done, though. How many people play ESO and pay a sub just for the crafting bag?

    SOE started out fumbling around in the dark and, as per the usual, never really carried through on most of what they were doing. DBG/DPG don't even seem to care about offering a good product or longevity so long as they can milk the customers for as little effort possible in the short term. Still, if the company cared something might be salvaged. Since they don't, just buy a krono off of someone and go play EQ.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  14. Arazons

    Arazons Member

    LOL i saw that, and he started replying to himself too
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Zynt

    Zynt Active Member

    He's saying the same stuff he always says, in almost every single thread that in anyway criticizes the game. He just made a post and started with it this time. He spends more time on the forums than I do playing.
     
    • Funny Funny x 5
  16. Fuli

    Fuli Well-Known Member

    Regarding subs, I like ESO's model. Open up the entire game but give the sub folks gotta have, neat little perks.

    Castegyre is 100% right about that crafting bag. A simple little qol perk like that makes me feel good about spending money on the sub.

    In general, I don't like punishing incentives like eq2 relies on because they tend to cause people to feel coerced and resentful.

    If you're selling fun or enjoyment, it's more effective to align incentives with that kind of experience, which is what eso has done.

    Coercive incentives on the other hand (even if on an unconscious level) tend to undermine the experience a game is promising.

    People get enough coercion in life, they buy and play games to have fun and escape stuff like that. That's what Bethesda understands and EQ2 (and Kander in particular) does not.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2020
    • Agree Agree x 7
  17. Mermut

    Mermut Well-Known Member

    The beauty of ignore.. I don't even see the threads he starts :p
     
    • Like Like x 3
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  18. Castegyre

    Castegyre Active Member

    OMG... I clicked on that link. I read things. I am scarred.

    How can one person so consistently pretend to know what they're talking about while simultaneously proving that they don't, often in the same sentence, and not have constant @** pain from all of the people putting their feet up it?
     
    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. Wulfgyr / Erytheal

    Wulfgyr / Erytheal Active Member

    That's a great point, Fuli - the harvest bag in ESO (even on the console version) probably kept me there a good 3-4 months longer than I would have otherwise stayed. Ended up moving on, once I started the new job a few years ago.

    If they really cared to though, they could probably stuff the F2P genie back in the bottle. But it would have to take a thoughtful approach to the problem, and enough empathy to carefully consider the player side of the equation. Neither of which I think exist at Darkpaw outside of perhaps ttobey and Kaitheel (maybe Chrol?), though I haven't had enough interactions with Thordalf, Asterix and several others to really include them.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. Sweatypie

    Sweatypie Active Member

    Regarding increasing the sub fee. I agree, 15 bucks a month isnt a lot anymore. However, I refuse to pay more than $15 a month for the current state of EQ2 where there is no content, zero class balance, zero content. Even 15 dollars is too much for EQ2 this year. If they made 1 or 2 expansions where players were happy for once, then they could consider doing it.

    I also think most raiders dont even pay a sub anymore, most people in EQ and EQ2 today buy cheap krono from various sources instead of actually paying $15, they pay 7-8-9 dollars a month from 3rd party. Obviously someone bought the initial krono from Darkpaw Games, but its to show that increasing the sub fee wont actually do much.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

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