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New Federal Legislation on Loot Boxes/P2W

Discussion in 'EverQuest II General Discussion' started by Fuli, May 8, 2019.

  1. Fuli

    Fuli Well-Known Member

    Last edited: May 8, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  2. Tekka

    Tekka Active Member

    I'm following this with great interest. It was only a matter of time before the government stepped in, since the gaming industry refused to handle it themselves.
    • Agree Agree x 6
  3. Fendhar

    Fendhar New Member

    About time!
    Netherlands banned them in 2018 already and games got modified accordingly and even Valve removed the store for folks in netherlands.

    (Belgium followed a few months later.)
    • Like Like x 5
  4. Zhaanish

    Zhaanish Active Member

    I can't stand the concept. I really hope they do get banned.
    • Agree Agree x 5
  5. Sweatypie

    Sweatypie Active Member

    I miss the good old days where they would release the game and you got what you got. They will update it two or three times, release the server files and mod tools and let people create mods and make the game even better on their own. Then after a few years some games would recieve an expansion pack that was an entirely new game on its own and well worth the 30 bucks.

    The whole lootbox and DLC package thing that started in 2010 and beyond has in my opinion hurt gaming and "gaming as a service" is the biggest sham in the history of entertainment.
    • Agree Agree x 4
  6. Clementine

    Clementine Member

    But see, this is the issue. Gamers want multiplayer games to have longevity, Overwatch for example is still getting large updates every month almost three years after release. That just wouldn't be happening without mtx or lootboxes. They have no place in single player games though, in my opinion.
  7. Cindrax

    Cindrax Active Member

    I really this come into law so the game companies have to focus on making good games not developed around microtransactions...
    • Agree Agree x 4
  8. Sweatypie

    Sweatypie Active Member

    Thats why mod tools were great. Games like Halflife, Battlefield, Unreal Tournament, Call of duty and Quake had mod tools and server files open so everyone could make the games they wanted. Mod tools were so powerful you could pretty much make games on top of a game.

    Here is the real shocker. People didnt play games to unlock skins back in the day, they played because the games were fun and the communities behind them were awesome. Not to get a skin or some dumb hat.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Winner Winner x 2
  9. Castegyre

    Castegyre Active Member

    Loot boxes and similar mechanics do not exist purely for the company to make enough money to support the game. If that was the goal the company would simply ask for/charge that much money if they needed it. Gambling and the market places that support it exist to take advantage of human nature so the company can con the customers out of as much money as possible. Perhaps a free to play game might need a cash shop, but that cash shop does not need to include gambling mechanics.

    Personally, I'm ok with cash shops. If you want to sell me a horse for $25, ok. Just don't use coercive marketing tactics to hard sell me on a chance for that horse at $5 each and not even have the decency to give me the odds of winning it.
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Appreciation Appreciation x 1
  10. Tekka

    Tekka Active Member

    "They have to make money somehow." is an oft used - and abused - argument.

    Of course companies exist to make money.

    And you know what? I've said it before, and stand by it: There are better and worse ways to make money. Guess which one predatory marketing and sketchy gambling mechanics falls under?

    Games made money before the advent of loot boxes and gambling in their games, and the good ones will find a way to do so again, while the bad ones will just morph to another predatory practice.

    "They have to make money somehow." is never, ever a justifiable reason to excuse bad practices, bad dev teams that are left unchecked, etc.
    • Agree Agree x 8
    • Appreciation Appreciation x 1
  11. Feldon

    Feldon Administrator Staff Member

    Why are companies allowed to sell loot boxes without disclosing the odds of winning specific items?

    Every lottery and casino is required to post the odds publicly. Of course many people aren't capable of walking away, but having the info out there would be an excellent start.
    • Agree Agree x 9
  12. Anaogi

    Anaogi Active Member

    They deliberately engineer these things to trigger addictive behavior. They're no better than the tobacco industry, when it was doing the exact same thing, with the possible exception of not causing cancer.

    That being said, since it's the US government, I expect the effort to be a total $#!+show that winds up making things worse.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Clementine

    Clementine Member

    I wasn't using that argument, in fact I wasn't even really supporting lootboxes. I was just saying that mtx has allowed games an unprecedented level of lost-launch support. It doesn't matter if it's a loot box, a subscription, or a battle pass. The "live service" model has had success, though it's certainly had more failures than success. It's very similar to MMOs in that regard.

    Edit: What I will defend though, is Overwatch's specific implementation of loot boxes. If every game had loot boxes like Overwatch's then I don't think anyone would care about them, but other publishers had to take it to the next level of greed. Games like Rocket League and PUBG are awful with the lootboxes.
  14. Tekka

    Tekka Active Member

    I didn't read your post as a specific use of that defense.

    I quoted your post because your example used a game that couldn't exist in the way that it does without microtransactions and loot boxes - because it was designed that way. It was a deliberate choice at inception, and there were other options.

    I have no problem with fluff microtransactions, I've taken a whaling harpoon or three in the past, and will again. I am fundamentally opposed to games that require you to spend in the cash shop to compete and loot boxes in general (though again, there are less bad versions out there).

    I don't play Overwatch, or any games like it, so I don't pretend to know how their stuff works. I'm speaking in general about gambling and pay to win mechanics and how predatory the loot boxes (gambling) are when left unregulated industry wide, not game specific.

    Again, there are a lot of ways to make money in a game. Some are good and some less so.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Fendhar

    Fendhar New Member

    Like Daybreak when you could only get the best Merc via "Lootbox" - well - they called it different but it pretty much was exactly that.
    And there are other examples.
    Those "Collectibles" they have (in EQ at least) that you can only get via those "Lootboxes". It takes quite a few and deals you many doubles to finish the whole collection. All this is directed at how humans work and truly should be forbidden if it involves real money.

    Killing a mob over and over for a minimum chance at a certain item is one thing - but having to throw money at the company for the same minimum chance is a different piece.
    • Agree Agree x 6
  16. Alarra

    Alarra Active Member

    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 2
  17. Tekka

    Tekka Active Member

    Did anyone else read the update/statement at the end from CEO Stanley Pierre-Louis of Entertainment Software Association as: "We're not predatory, you can trust my totally unbiased viewpoint. Now please don't take away our gambling and lootboxes." ?

    I hope they cram a legislative stick right up their corporate <edited for content> and snap it off.

    Let folks who actually care about games and gamers rebuild on the ashes of the industry.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Alarra

    Alarra Active Member

    Yeah, I read that as, we need the gambling children to keep us afloat, it should be the gamers parents responsibility to use the tools that we may or may not put in, cos there are no rules that we actually have to nee-nee-nee(add in side facing smirk).

    Mind you, I haven't read through the 18 pages of the bill, because well I am not a US citizen and I am not a game developer.
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Alarra

    Alarra Active Member

    In addition, p2w is just wrong for the industry, I don't mind DLC's which add actual content or fluff, but loot boxes and p2w mechanics should be regulated or banned, as there are just so many vulnerable people out there, and that is not just children.
    • Agree Agree x 4
  20. Anaogi

    Anaogi Active Member

    Not to mention, while I could sort of see it with a free to play game, all these $60+ games with loot boxes and such are just greed, greed, greed. Hoping EA and Activision go down in flames.

    Sadly, knowing the US Government and its relationship to Big Tech, I fully expect the results to be an epic Charlie Foxtrot.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1

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