Your thoughts on requiring specific levels of spells to defeat mobs

There was a rumor going around that you needed to grandmaster an ascension spell in order to defeat a T4 boss, and recently Gninja pretty much confirmed it:

(screenshot courtesy of Rondo9 on the DBforums)​

So what do folks think about requiring not just a specific counter or ascension class, but the grandmaster level of a spell in order to defeat a mob?


(My thoughts are in a separate comment below to keep this main post from being a wall of text.)

 

I've always defended the fine line that SOE/DBG walked between "pay to win" and "pay to speed up", saying that everything you could pay for *was* available in the game with some time and effort. In this case, though, the time/effort to get to the grandmaster level of ascensions spells can be prohibitive; the ingredients to craft upgrades are painfully rare drops and the time to research to grandmaster adds up to quite a chunk of elapsed time.

This means that while paying to get the required spell level is still technically optional, the groups who are at that content now are pretty much stuck at that mob. It's not a matter of optimizing gear, tweaking AAs, shuffling group composition; grinding for the parts needed to "legitimately" get the upgrades is the only way to put effort into getting the upgrades, and the forums are filled with people talking about how low the drop rate is on the parts needed.

If I put on my "Pollyanna" non-tinfoil hat, I think the devs are looking to stretch the content out as much as they can. Unfortunately, the time gates are feeling more and more artificial; in the past, you were gated by gear and class, and dedication and practice could win the day. Lately, though, the ability to work at bettering yourself, your toon(s), and your group is moving more towards waiting for time to pass (ascension XP), hoping for beyond-rare drops (illegible scrolls) in zones that no longer have anything to offer in the way of upgrades to the people running them most, or to pay to stave off the burnout.

There is a weird mix of making toons crazy powerful through stat inflation while at the same time holding these newly powerful toons back through artificial time and loot gates. It's a mixed message. :^(

(Hopefully there are other ways for folks to defeat this and other mobs, so it's not truly this singular a requirement.)

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To answer my own question: I don't like the idea of requiring a very specific high-level spell to defeat a mob. Certain types of damage, specific classes, specific strategies...part of the game, part of the challenge. But requiring one specific spell at a specific level or it's nearly impossible is an odd choice, and means that the ability to be creative and clever and overcome even when not in an ideal group becomes limited. And unfortunately, it means that if people who are on that content want to keep playing and pushing, they become more ...motivated... to pay to get that specific spell in order to proceed. It becomes less of a choice, and more of a requirement, and that makes me uncomfortable and a sad ogre.

 

Sounds like raid guilds will have a new requirement: must have spent at minimum $250 on ascension spell research upgrade

 

Time works in the place of cash, unless you want to be first.

 

It does, but leveling all the spells in just 1 ascension class to GM by time research takes about 1 year including the 500 free per month. So you can kill your t4's from this xpack after next xpack is released.

So technically it's not p2w, just pay to time travel

 

If I heard right the components for crafting the new adept and master ascension spell recipes aren't even dropping yet? So there isn't a legitimate way to grind them, only research or pay.

In general, I disagree strongly with the requirement that specific spells need to be grandmastered. Especially when the spell in question isn't a high priority for upgrading so it's unlikely anyone has it done outside of paying.

 

Do the people who spend actual money on this sort of thing get angry once the paywall is removed, I wonder?

 

You can bet on that.

 

Or when the spells they pay for with money are nerfed once enough pay to meet the metrics put out by the investment firm ruining this game. Oh, I mean running, not ruining.

To answer the question though. Requiring a raid to be at a certain spell level that is basically not reachable anytime soon using the method of advancement that had been in game forever, and only changed for this expansion, is horrible. Telling raiders who are at that level to wait is like telling race car drivers they can't speed on the race track - it ain't going to happen. This was not about stretching the content out, this was about maximizing profits. If this was about stretching out the content they would not allow the pay to advance method. They allowed it because they knew enough people would take that route, and they could see an increase in profits. Say what you want about tin foil hats - they have lost all credibility. Most everything can now be bought for money. The only thing that can't are Ascension scrolls and I would say they will be offered in the near future like XP vials.

 

I think you've said it well, Conifur.

The idea of working for weeks or months to get geared up and experienced enough to work through the content is a good one, and one of the goals of the game. Many folks liked the idea of certain bosses being vulnerable to a single damage type at a time; it added a challenge and encouraged groups to contain all Ascension classes. But gating a boss behind a single spell at a high level crosses the line from "work to improve yourself and your group" to "get that spell as soon as you can, since it's the only thing holding us back".

Up until now, you could shuffle classes around, try new strategies, get better gear, figure out alternate ways to beat tough encounters. Unless there is another hidden strategy waiting to be found, or drops for spell upgrade pieces greatly increase, this changes that.

 

The spell lowers the effective level by 1 at GM+ rank, in case anyone is pondering. I don't know their thoughts on why they made this mob so tough, but that itself is the true gating mechanism.. as there are a couple guilds who did pay to get GM rank on this spell, and it's still not dead (last I looked) makes me believe that it doesn't help enough.