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PoP: RIP tradeskilling

Discussion in 'Tradeskills' started by Mermut, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. Mermut

    Mermut Well-Known Member

    So... no tradeskill timeline, no access to materials for a huge portion of the player base, huge material requirements for combines and 10s of rush orders required per level...

    The only people who will be able to tradeskill for a long time after release are those with mountains of plat to pay the prices the node campers will charge or those who camp the nodes themselves :(
    • Agree Agree x 3
  2. Shmogre

    Shmogre Active Member

    The hardest part of all of this for me is that the devs did a really good job at making PoP more accessible for adventurers. Much of the pure grind is mitigated, gear is being provided so you can jump in and play, repeatables are broken up throughout the faction questlines, alts are flagged for content once you've done it, even leveling to 110 is possible just through doing the questlines (which we haven't seen in a very long time). It is awesome.

    And now tradeskillers are having to level purely through mindless, repetitive tasks, with no other recourse. A few devs have said they want us exploring the world (we do already, since the most prized harvests are only available through direct harvesting). Another dev has (jokingly?) said that we shouldn't expect to be able to make grandmastered gear right away, which is NOT what we want.

    We just want to level right now. And fighting all of our fellow tradeskillers for the tens of thousands of materials needed to get to 110 is not an appealing prospect. :(
    • Agree Agree x 6
  3. Shmogre

    Shmogre Active Member

    In case people didn't see, Kander confirmed that the high requirements for materials are indeed not intended...he said the goal is that a "single rush order should require about 90 components combining primary and sub components" and that they will "be addressing the bugged resource requirements soon".

    This is why we have asked for communication from the devs. Just a quick "those values aren't intended, here is what we are aiming for" a few days ago could have kept the panic from Gninja's pony reply from spreading through the community.
    • Agree Agree x 5
  4. Nolus

    Nolus Member

    Well, for what it's worth rush orders are really the best way to level anyways. The only real exception are the daily/weekly tradeskill tasks. However being that the cap has not raised I am not sure how much xp the current ones may give or not.

    Certainly though feels like the balls pretty much dropped since domino left. :mad:
    • Agree Agree x 3
  5. Mermut

    Mermut Well-Known Member

    Rush orders are the fastest way to level... IF you have copious materials. When you have to harvest manually for all of your materials....
    • Agree Agree x 4
  6. Senya

    Senya Member

    I already paid for the standard edition, but if I'd known this ahead of time I don't think I'd have bothered.

    My playtime is a bit sporadic and with the holidays coming up it will be even more so. Crafting and/or decorating was a way I could log in and enjoy myself even when I knew I couldn't join a group or get too involved. If I've got 30 minutes or an hour to play, I don't want to spend it harvesting so that I might be able to do one or two rush orders the next time I log in.

    I'd have just waited until the timeline went in (assuming it really does) and/or the guild harvesters were at least upgraded (assuming they really are) before I made the purchase. I'm still not ready to completely walk away from EQ2, but I'm looking for another game. I know I'll play enough to get my $31.50 worth out of PoP, but had I known I would have delayed my purchase.
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Nommi

    Nommi Member

    Any bets on if/when the tradeskill timelime and other tradeskill promises will take place?
  8. Errrorr

    Errrorr Active Member

    • Funny Funny x 4
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Nommi

    Nommi Member

    Making our ponies worthless IS worthy of panic/outrage! Lowering component requirements and increasing harvest pop times is just a bandaid not a fix and IMO a slap in the face for all us tradeskillers/harvesters who DO put in the work to keep harvest boxes full in our guildhalls and houses. Didn't a dev say something like - "We want them to adventure out into the world"...that's BS!.....there are still many tradeskillers who are not lv 100 adventurer so they can't adventure out to do their own harvesting!!!!
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Mermut

    Mermut Well-Known Member

    Most zones (including Plane of Magic) have places low level adventurers can harvest safely even in high level zones. Some of them require the harvesters to pay attention, but it's definitely doable. I've had lvl 30 adventurers who had their harvesting cloak before jumping mounts came out.

    I still think that the ponies should be able to harvest the new tier of mats on release (like they have been able to every single time we've had new tiers added), but 'low level adventurers can't harvest' isn't why.... nor is it true.
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Appreciation Appreciation x 1
  11. Malleria

    Malleria Member

    Honestly the only hope for the tradeskill signature line is if they let Kaitheel do it. Anyone else and it'll be short, dull and full of bugs when it eventually gets launched 6 months later.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Appreciation Appreciation x 1
  12. Shmogre

    Shmogre Active Member

    Every toon can harvest, no matter the adventure level (DenMum has created new toons specifically to test harvesting and TS questlines to be sure). The devs have always been pretty good at making sure there are harvesting nodes able to be reached by low-level toons. It may take some caution at times, but that's an understandable effect of being a "squishier" toon.

    My main concern with the reason given ("we want you out in the world") is that it feels dismissive and does not show an understanding of harvesting and tradeskillers. It's also a bit misleading, since tradeskillers would normally see the new zone through the questline, which isn't going to be available.

    It would be a much better situation all around if the devs had planned something to help make up for the lack of launch content; instead, they are making the situation a grind with hours required competing for resources before even being able to gain XP or craft new recipes.

    As much as I've championed our devs and really like them as people, it's an odd customer service approach...
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2017
    • Agree Agree x 3
  13. CoLDMeTaL

    CoLDMeTaL Active Member

    They never liked trade skilling anyway. "you shouldn't be able to get something useful just digging in the ground."
  14. Mizgamer62

    Mizgamer62 Active Member

    My theory is that they want to make the harvesting/tradeskilling process so frustrating that players will become impatient and spend dbc in order to progress. They basically did the same with the ascended spells and many people spent mega $$$ to upgrade them. I could be wrong, but seeing the trends in decision making, I don't think I am to far off the mark. As you said, their explanation of "we want you out in the world" makes no sense at all.
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Shmogre

    Shmogre Active Member

    Sigh. Yeah, I fear that too. I really hope it's not that calculated; I would much rather see incentives to *encourage* spending real money and time than pushing players into mindless grinding and/or paying.

    Some Pollyanna part of me still wants to believe that they simply want to stretch out the content and that these are just misguided attempts to make the expansion last longer, complicated by losing a subject matter expert. But I'm not going to lie, it's getting harder to keep that optimism... :(
    • Appreciation Appreciation x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Senya

    Senya Member

    I really have my doubts about there actually being a tradeskill timeline added. Maybe I'm crazy, but I really don't feel like Caith likes working on tradeskills. If I recall, he was on tradeskills once before when Domino was gone and I don't remember there being much to be excited about (for crafting) then, either.

    I'm sure that there will be a few people who'll dump money into the marketplace for raw harvests, but I for one will not be one of them. I'll harvest when I happen to see a node up on my way between point A and point B and dump it in my depot for later. For me, crafting will be on hold until there's either a timeline (that upgrades the pony) or the guild harvesters are finally upgraded. Maybe at least one of those things will really happen.
    • Agree Agree x 5
  17. Semperfidelis

    Semperfidelis Member

    My 2 cents is that they're probably arguing among themselves about "how much" and what "should be." If some of them are new at this, and some brain drain has occurred, then probably they don't have a clear handle on what a reasonable expectation is. Unfortunately their track record on listening to those who are left that know (us) isn't very good. Listening to the players is of course dangerous because some of them will use it as an opportunity to exploit. But there is a large group of players who complain sincerely.

    When the scorpion-stealing thing was brought to a head, I later reflected that this could easily be players who are frustrated with playing beta and then NOT being listened to. So they find something that's broken and make other players miserable about it until THEY complain. It takes a certain type of sick mind to think of that kind of thing, but we are gamers after all. We find ways around stone-walls.

    In AoM I was continually trying to bring attention to the fact that the nodes most useful for jewelers wink in and out of visibility depending on your camera angle. Sadly those nodes are STILL like that. I would've done my best and ceased complaining if I thought they made the best effort and it was the rough terrain that caused the problem. But each time I was literally shouted down by people I suspected to be devs on alts in the forum. Each time I was ridiculed for being "not good enough" to know how to gather.

    I'm not telling you this to gain your pity. I'm telling you this because history may repeat itself if we discover that complaining about the harvesting leads to ridicule of the crafter. First of all, they should expect complaints if things are changed. New things always confuse some % of people who then reach out and ask for help, or express frustration. "Shut up and deal" is not an attitude that wins hearts and minds.
    • Agree Agree x 5
  18. Irgia

    Irgia New Member

    I'm not sure DBG only keeps it to "shut up and deal", it is starting to look more like censorship at this point.

    After posting in the harvesting pony discussion on DBG, I have received a warning for inappropriate posts with a note that further will lead to more warnings and being banned from game.

    Quite a few posts have been deleted from that thread so I suspect that there are others that have also received a warning.

    I cancelled my subscription upon reading the message from the moderator and am happy that I didn't buy the new expac.
    • Agree Agree x 4
  19. Feldon

    Feldon Administrator Staff Member

    If everyone who gets mistreated by a Dev or Community cancels their subscriptions, maybe the sales drop will show up on someone's switchboard.
    • Agree Agree x 6
  20. Rosyposy

    Rosyposy Active Member

    I got a warning about trolling. Methinks he-who-shall-not-be-named trolled a bunch of us by reporting.
    • Agree Agree x 3

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