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How many people do you think are still playing?

Discussion in 'EverQuest II General Discussion' started by Just Curious, Jun 27, 2018.

  1. Just Curious

    Just Curious Member

    Hi all,

    Long time watcher, first time poster. :)

    I'm just curious how many people you think are still actually playing EQ2. Based on the raid progression site, it looks like about 60 guilds are somewhat actively raiding. So that's a guaranteed 1,440 players. Beyond that it gets a bit murky in terms of estimating total numbers of players. If raiders only represent 10% of the number of active players, then the total number of players is less than 15,000. I don't see how the company can sustain the game with only 15,000 players. Maybe DGC found some efficiencies in the layoffs, but those only go so far. At some point, the cost of developing new content and running the game is more than the incoming revenue stream. No one outside of the company knows those numbers for sure, but it seems likely they're at or past that point.

    When KA launched I told my friends that I thought the game had "one, maybe two expansions left in it." After about seven weeks I completed everything I wanted to do in PoP. That left 45 weeks until another possible expansion. Doing the same content repeatedly didn't do it for me, so I stopped playing. My sub ends next month. I may piddle around a little, but I'm done subscribing. The majority of my guild, which started the first week of the game, has already left. There are one or two people who still log in every once in a while, but it's been around 160 days since the others have logged in. That may be an anomaly, but there isn't much going on in General Chat either. The only thing happening on Skyfire is the constant back and forth between trolls.

    For those that say the company should cut their losses and sell the IP, I ask this: Is the IP really worth that much? I guess around 15,000 people might agree it is valuable, but I don't think many gaming companies would find that even close to interesting. *shrug*

    It will be sad the day that EQ2 closes, but I think that day will come sooner, rather than later.

    Anyway, those are my thoughts.

    Just Curious
  2. JimmyBananas

    JimmyBananas New Member

    Considering the substantial amount of in-depth lore that the IP has attached to it, it'd be significantly easier to make a new MMORPG with everything that the EverQuest universe could provide than it'd be to make one from scratch, and done right, I think a real revitalization of an old-school franchise would turn some heads. Especially if they, y'know, advertised it once in a while.

    In my opinion, it's the rules and lore of EverQuest that make it so great. Years and years later, it's the world itself and its history/gods/events that I remember so fondly, not the stale combat and outdated gameplay. I'm an avid World of Warcraft player and I'd still say that, hands down, EQ has the better lore/ambience. Makes me wonder what EQ2 could've looked like had it been in the hands of a better studio this whole time.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. Just Curious

    Just Curious Member

    I just think the MMORPG genre has peaked and is, currently, over saturated. How many games have come out that are "going to kill WoW" and then just tank? I've lost count. Since I doubt anyone is going to want to make or play a single player EQ, I think it's an IP that has run its course.
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. Zhaanish

    Zhaanish Active Member

    I wonder the same thing. I held out until I was the last person standing in my guild and it became to tiresome to maintain the guildhall status alone so I moved to an active guild and kept my alts in the old guild. However, that didn't work for me either. It was an active guild in the sense that people were online, but there wasn't the community/friend feeling of my old guild. Also my husband quit playing. I can't point to one expansion that did the game in for sure, but when it became too hard to keep alts up and it became obvious that TS was an afterthought those were the nails in the coffin for me.

    All of that said I wonder how many are still playing and if the game is profitable? I spent so many years of my free time in EQ1 and EQ2 I can't seem to stop watching the boards here even though I haven't played in months. I was logging in to at least buy new recipe books from the festivals but I've even stopped doing that. My subscription expired last August (I had bought a yearly sub when they ran that deep sale the previous year) and I did not renew.

    At this point I won't go back. I can't think of any reason I would, but I can't help but watch to see what will happen next.
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Tekka

    Tekka Active Member

    At the end of the day, Norrath is just a Forgotten Realms clone made into an MMO. Yes, the franchise had many 'firsts', and yes, there is a lot of nostalgia associated with the game - but when folks are honest, it's the people they played with and the communities that formed that they are nostalgic for, not the actual game.

    In addition, there is a LOT of very negative baggage associated with the franchise (though more EQ2 than EQ) due to the game itself, and both of the owners it's had.

    So, it's my opinion that no, the IP is not worth the initial investment, plus the cost it would take to rehab the game. It would be better to just start from scratch and make the game you believe players want.

    Edit: I would be surprised if there are 10k players that still play EQ2 regularly, and not all of them are subscribers.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
  6. JimmyBananas

    JimmyBananas New Member

    I can't fully agree with that one. Plenty of people bring up the "WoW killer" comment because they want a new, good MMORPG to go to, but the problem is that an awful lot of them suck. They refuse to listen to fans. They churn out games littered with microtransactions/pay-to-win situations. They get killed off by hackers/lack of content/bugs/etc. a year into the process. You're right in that there are plenty of trash games out there, and if you're been a fan of the genre long enough, you can tell which ones are going to go in which direction before they even release.

    MMORPGs still have massive appeal, but a growing problem is that now -- due to so many shitty games -- you have people afraid to move on/get invested in new ones, in fear of said scenario in which they tank and all that time/money/effort is wasted, not to mention the time it takes to build the relationships it requires to make an MMO fun. I can't blame them. Prior to WoW I played EQ2, which became bogged down with bad decisions and prick developers. Prior to EQ2 I played Neverwinter, which became greedy and pay-to-win. ESO has all the potential in the world, but the class balancing sucks and they're more interested in filling the cash shop than the in-game world. I could list more, but you get the point. It goes on and on; a genre filled with bad decisions.

    So, yeah, there's saturation...but saturation of crap. If the stars aligned and a new, good MMORPG released, I think it'd be well-received, even if treated skeptically at first.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  7. Mizgamer62

    Mizgamer62 Active Member

    I definitely had a great deal of fun for many years, but what ultimately drove me from the game beyond bad decisions on its direction, p2w, etc., was not feeling valued as a loyal paying customer.

    I still check the boards out of morbid curiosity even though I no longer pay or play. Why? I guess for me its because I spent the last 14 years putting a great deal of time and money into EQ2 and at this point I just want to see what transpires until the game ends.
    • Agree Agree x 4
  8. Just Curious

    Just Curious Member

    That's not why I brought it up. I brought it up because WoW still dominates the genre. New games, good and bad, are judged against WoW's success. I don't disagree that MMORPGs have appeal, but they are hard to get right (e.g. all the examples you listed above), they take a lot of work to develop and then maintain, they're competing in a market that is finite (i.e. not everyone likes MMORPGs), and a new game is still going to be competing with WoW. (As a tangent, I still don't understand the success of WoW. I've tried to like it several times and it just doesn't do it for me. *shrug*) I just don't think that most companies are interested in taking all that on and the ones that do tend not to do it well.
  9. Dizzy

    Dizzy Active Member

    WoW was successful as it tapped a different audience than a traditional MMO. If you look closely at Blizzard you will see them churning the same customers over and over through whatever new game they are rolling out now. Blizzard were well known for quality single player games with great fun factor and had grown a large player base that followed the studio since the 90's.
    My personal favorites were StarCraft followed by War Craft III: Frozen Throne so when they launched Wow a lot of people who had never played an MMO tried it. Lots stayed and played. Personally I own every expansion for Wow and so do my 2 children. I personally play WoW like a single player game as I play the new content until I get to the real grindy part at the end (complete most of the quest lines) and then park my account. I don't raid as EQ2 taught me not too :).

    The mistake the MMO industry made was assuming that there was a similar sized MMO player base waiting around to play the next great MMO released. After many failures the industry now understands that MMO's are niche and the player base is much smaller than WoW's numbers.

    The MMO games industry is currently going through a PvP phase and as usually cannot understand that this is also niche (more so than PVE in my opinion) and if you also add Free for All (FFA) on the loot then your going to have a very short run. If you read MassivelyOP you will see some of those PVP FFA games are in dire straights atm.

    The established MMO franchise like Guild Wars 2, FFXVI, ESO etc all have good numbers of players and are profitable but they will never see players numbers like Blizzard has for WoW.
    • Agree Agree x 4
  10. Fuli

    Fuli Well-Known Member

    I would speculate active raiders probably comprise 15 to 20% of active players, so probably neighborhood of 7,500 to 10,000 players. Of those, 80 to 85% are members.

    Just my guess.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Fuli

    Fuli Well-Known Member

    Regarding the industry, I don't think it's bad at all. I could be wrong, but I believe ESO had surpassed Wow in active subscriptions these days. Yes, the cash shop in ESO is a bit annoying, but there is no p2w, and I found the game is really well done otherwise. But really, there are still a lot of games to choose from depending on what you like.

    I'm also looking forward to the Ashes of Creation release, and there is Pantheon to satisfy the old eq2 grindie crowd on the horizon.

    If I had to pick a common denominator of the titles that continue to do well, it's the presence of a professional and robust marketing infrastructure that listens to customers, engages with them cooperatively, and responds well.

    Regarding the eq ip, I'm doubtful it will hold much interest to a buyer.
    • Agree Agree x 3
  12. Meneltel

    Meneltel Active Member

    I am just hoping that a free EQ2 server will start up when EQ2 crashes. If not, I might start a project 1999 account but we will see.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Cindrax

    Cindrax Member

    If I calculate quickly... there were reported that there were 15-20 instances open on the new map when the xpansion was released. I have no idea if this is true or even if it were that many on all the servers. From my memory a new map spins up after 50 people fill one up, but lets be positive and say 100. Lets also assume all open maps where full.

    So, that is 5 servers (not counting IoR or TLE) with 100*20 players, ie 2000 players per server. So that is 10k players in total... IF there were 100 in each map, and IF there were 20 instances open on each server....

    My real guesstimate is more like 5-6k in total players.
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 2
  14. JimmyBananas

    JimmyBananas New Member

    My biggest gripe was the lack of love for hybrid builds in the end-game. It's tough to lean specifically in one direction or another when there are so many awesome abilities to use, especially with synchronization or whatever it was called. Aside from that and the fact that I wished they'd add a little more to the game and a little less to the cash shop, ESO was a lot of fun.
  15. Meneltel

    Meneltel Active Member

    EQ1 seems to have far more active accounts, memberships and F2P than EQ2 just from what I have seen on FV server.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. Fuli

    Fuli Well-Known Member

    Very understandable viewpoint.

    I actually like the limits on slotable abilities and attribute allocations because it requires that one think hard about those choices.

    I have come to believe that eq2 is waaaayyyy overkill on slotable abilities. More buttons does not equal more skill or more challenge. It just equals more buttons.

    Respec costs can be paid in game with gold, or, the cash shop, of course.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. JimmyBananas

    JimmyBananas New Member

    Yup, and I broke my character's bank with those respecs. My wife actually had to yell at me to stop going back to town between every dungeon to change my damn abilities/stats. I think I was really torn between a lot of the sweet magicka-heavy Earth Heart/Draconic Power skills and the sta-heavy two-hander/armor/etc. abilities. Being able to sta-morph more of Dragonknight's more interesting abilities would've been nice.

    And agreed on EQ2 having way too many abilities. I like being able to see my screen without having to ram everything into macros.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Pink Poodle

    Pink Poodle New Member

    EQ1 also has the old hardcores too, since that game is a big cult classic.
  19. Zeddicious

    Zeddicious New Member

    I'd speculate that the bulk of their monies aren't had by the 15.00 sub fees. Although it plays a part, marketplace sales for Krono, server transfers and paid-for DPS (ascension) are most likely a large contributor.

    Take the IoR server for example. On any given day, there's 50 characters listed in /who all. Granted, they're all on paid subs to physically be there - but in reality - the number of actual humans at the keyboard is definitely not 50. There's more boxers there than in a Fruit of the Loom factory. I'm sure that holds true on other servers as well. The days of cracking down on boxers has come to an end, simply for economic reasons.

    If I really wanted to - I could buy all of my ascension upgrades, sell a few hundred in krono's to buy T2/3 raid gear - and complete my epic 2 / etc within 30 days - and jump right off the server and raid somewhere else. Seen this done at least a half a dozen times.

    This is where they're realizing the influx of monies.

    The server won't merge. The server will most likely remain as it is: a way point / cash cow for hardcore endgamers to use as a stop-gap solution to switching mains / etc.

    I do think they missed the boat with making eth coins there no-trade. That would have spurred on even more krono sales / transfers like it did last year.

    That's not even beginning to touch on the 500 dbc transfers to the server (with bags full of no-trade gear, that's tradable there) on a mule toon, to convert gear to plat to krono. Its a cycle, and one that still works since the population issue has never even been addressed.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. Sweatypie

    Sweatypie Active Member

    Well, if anyone had the balls to do it, they could find out how many characters gets updated per census every month. That would give us some sort of number, but so far, no one has been brave enough and they all claim DBG would shut down census if they did.

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