They Break Winter Extravaganza?

Welcome to the forums.

I don't recall anyone, ever, telling another customer when, or how to spend their money. I have seen folks (myself included) bring up concerns they have about how things are introduced, predatory practices, and the poor treatment of customers. Until recently, actually, many of us suggested that new or returning players give the free to play a go, and decide from there if they want to continue - nothing lost but a bit of time.

I don't think it's your place to demand someone not bring up concerns about a game they're still following, and yes, a lot of folks here still play. Or dictate where they can, or should, express those concerns or opinions.

They bring up their concerns because they want The Team and the game to be better. If you don't want things to be better, that's your prerogative, but again, it's not your place to demand others lower their expectations.

If the way you handle things is to drop them and never look back, that's your way. Not everyone is like that - see above point.

I also haven't seen anyone acting smug. I've seen anger, disappointment, sadness, vindication. But not smug.



Enjoy your stay here.

 

I am certainly NOT smug - I would be incredibly sad to see people ripped off by this train-wreck of a company. All I want is for people to be aware of what they are doing with their money, and make their decision with their eyes wide open. US$300 is a lot of money at this time of the year, when you've just had Thanksgiving, the expansion dropped (and many will have paid for the premium level), and Christmas. I don't want to see anyone burnt by DBG again, and if that means I'm considered a 'nay-sayer' or 'nasty' for pointing out that there is something odd about asking $300 for a supposed lifetime membership at the twilight end of the game, then so be it. I have big shoulders, I can live with that.

I have never demanded others not spend their money - I have no right to do that. I have only ever said that it's not something that I will be doing, and why.

 

Then we're all on the same page.

But see, personally I haven't "had enough." I still believe the game could be good, if I thought it was entirely gone then I wouldn't care enough to discuss it anymore. Right now if I want to play an MMO then I play Guild Wars 2 because I enjoy my time with it more than EQ2, but I'm not ruling out switching back to EQ2 if things were to change. I definitely don't expect them to change, I expect EQ2 to continue to circle the drain until they finally call it quits, but I'd love to be wrong.

 

Same here. I have something like 20 years of all-access paid into EQ/EQ2, and really enjoyed EQ2, until they decided to go essentially Raid Only, and the New Necessary Stat Of The Month. Then the cash shop... I don't mind cash shops, I use the cartel market all the time in STWOR, but everything I can buy there is purely cosmetic. Nothing offers in-game bonuses. The closest thing they have to an in-game bonus, is the Level 70 datacron, but that puts you at level 70, with basic gear. I don't have to pay to research spells, I don't have to pay for buffs, I don't have to pay for cure pots, etc...

We've walked away from a fully decorated guild hall, with almost all of the amenities. I walked away from all of my houses, and things I've collected over the years. I can't say I walked away from friends there, as virtually all of them quit before I did. I just eventually had enough and turned the lights out as it were.

Should they actually restore EQ2 to a good game, with developers that care about the lore, and the PLAYERS, and the PLAYER desires, I'd be back in a heartbeat; but the culture of the company seriously needs to change, and they need to revert the Exponential Power Growth every expansion. Oh, and it would have to be a company not as shady as DGC. Hell, I'd be happy even if EvilArts took them over!

 

Hi Cyrrena! Welcome to the forums that doesn't quit... or ban... or force edit or other stuff unless its really needed. Heck, Feldon, the guy running this is almost person non grata at the OF. As you can see, I use my handle here and there so there is no hiding or denying my statements at both places. I still like the game, but I hate the direction the team there is taking it. I haven't give up on the game yet, and just about all of the posters here haven't or they wouldn't be posting. Even if they don't play anymore, they still care enough to post.

 

The thing is:
Many of us here tried to point out to daybreak (and soe back then) the issues we see.
I had private talks with Brasse and the Director of CS years ago where I voiced my concerns (just to be proven right in certain cases - and that was admitted even) - not to demotivate or drive away anybody - but to help those in charge maybe create a better setting that more people love to play in.

But many years ago someone in the company decided that it is not ok to bring up points you do not like about the game any longer.
Everybody just started to prefer that everything must just be rainbows and butterflies, sticking their fingers in the ears singing "lalalalalala i hear nothing lalalala" although they would have been better off listening.

I left EQ2 several times because of design decisions I couldn't stand. And as many times I returned (minus 1) again to give it another try. Had my share of fun for a while but then found that the game simply evolved into something I didn't like - or what I find even WORSE: Into something that I couldn't handle anymore because of strange complexity and the feeling I would need a notebook besides the computer detailing all mechanics that might be of interest at a certain point. (And mind you - I have degrees in computer science and do teach myself - so I don't think it just wasn't because I am not clever enough to understand those mechanics.)

Now I just look at how customers (or just "players" if we want to factor in those who only go "free to play" not investing any money at all) and I find it very disturbing how they are treated.
There are devs who once I thought the world of that are treating those players like a piece of **** (sorry) and higher ups simply let them continue because they are those who exclusively know about certain aspects of the game and losing them might hit the game badly.

To be honest: Such folks I made sure are getting the boot asap at times I was in charge of personnel in such situations irl.
No knowledge, no positive reasoning can make up for the damage that kind of mindset does to a product on the long run.
Rather deal with having to pay someone for months to gain the knowledge I might just have shown the door than watching the other(s) one single more day doing harm to the whole gig.

When I look at those forums these days I find it amazing that there is just praise about the game - well - no wonder. If you look a bit more often you will find that forums get brainwashed several times a day.
Is this something I want to be a part of? No.
Is this something I think I should keep my mouth shut about? Nope - neither.

Once you only hear praise you will lose feeling for things that are sub-optimal or even simply just going the wrong direction.
Devs for sure see their own forums and feel like "yeah - all cool" - just like it is on their discord (which was Feldon's in the beginning to be precise).

I have never seen developers being that aggressive towards their playerbase like those on EQ2 (include their current community monkeys to that - because they are NO community managers anymore. They could be hired at any correctional institution - wouldn't make much of a difference how they behave.)
Then look at their "producders" - sorry - seriously? When they just put that one girl in charge I looked at her resume and was like "and she now brings WHAT again that helps the games here?".

They are desperately hoping for money. If you do it right you can even get subscriptions that you cannot book anymore just so that you keep paying.

I am sorry for some of those on the OF because the day will come where all this butterflies and rainbows construct will horribly fail. Daybreak isn't shy to close down a game that isn't profitable any longer.

Seriously: If they got rid of AllAccess and would just have you pay for the game you play I have a feeling that EQ2 might end up at the short end of the stick quickly.

Just compare how devs interact with their playerbase on EQ and EQ2 and you will quickly see where the problem is to be located and where to start to fix the issues.

 

You're right. I don't know you. I responded to what you posted, and characterized it exactly as you wrote it.

Why did the post get deleted?

P.S. Welcome to the eq2wire forums. Many of us don't agree with each other, but we get along anyway

 

I never understood why people get so defensive when people criticise "their" games.

Anyone with half a brain knows eq2 has been run like a **** show for at least 5 years now and yet there are people who will say stuff like uh the game is fine, people who writes on the forum is a minority.

At the same time you keep getting the "I cant find a pug" threads popping up more and more each expansion getting released and you see the clear evidence from the chart of eq2u lookups that the player base is almost entirely gone. We are not even 2 months after an expansion launch and ONE of the servers have had a "high" population the last couple of weeks.

Going from 275k to less than 100k "non unique" character looks up from early 2017 to late 2018 is a clear sign that players are leaving this game behind big time.

I am sorry but thats just truly pathetic and its even worse white knighting this company than it is for players or former players to be pissed off because of what they done to this product.

Players both current and former have been trying to get a communication line opened with DBG for years but they have been refusing player feedback unless its done on their echo chamber (which I btw blame Feldon for creating ), Discord. Any signs of you not agreeing with them and you get the boot. Permantly. They have seen the playerbase as enemies for years and now they are down to creating sub par content and dozens of system tacked on top of each other with no hope of ever fixing half of it.

There are currently 25 guilds worldwide, WORLDWIDE, raiding on the live servers and 11 on the TLE server. Dont come here trying to tell anyone, anywhere, that this game is healthy.

This means that since PoP launched in November and SF unlocked on Fallen Gate the 4th of December, around ~864 players have been doing endgame content in their game. Is that healthy? C'mon...

 

I don't want to dog pile on Cyrrena. I've disagreed with Cyrrena in the past, but I don't think they're a bad person.

What I will do is make a blanket statement to the people who clearly lurk here fishing for things to use as ammunition or to be offended by.

First, This isn't a team sport. If you're looking at this as being on a side vs others then I submit you are not in it for the right reasons. It takes all kinds to make a MMO or its community good. And, if that isn't your actual goal, genuinely making the game better, then IDGAF what you have to say. I see you as not being in it for the game or the community, you're just in it for yourself. To paraphrase something I must have repeated a thousand times now; If you really want the thing you care about to be better you have to be willing to accept criticism for it.

Second, offense is not given, it's taken. Your emotions in the moment may be somewhat beyond your control but how you react to them or act upon them is not. This current trend of everyone being so thin skinned that they're offended by everything almost on a whim is immature and I have no sympathy for it. The people that try to weaponize offense and use it to bludgeon others with I have contempt for. Instead of telling me you're offended, tell me what you really feel and how you've processed that into something useful so we can have an adult discussion about how to move forward from there.

EQ2 is a small fish in a huge pond at this point. It's not even the biggest thing under DBGs roof and hasn't been for a while. I'm here because I've spent 20 years and thousands of dollars in Norrath. I care, I don't want to see it die like this. I could whine and play the blame game every time someone on the forums does something I disagree with or comes after me directly, but that's ultimately not going to save the game. If anything it's going to distract from the real problems and assist EQ2 into the waiting grave that already seems to be dug for it. We should all stop doing it.

 

Exactly.
EVERY game gets progressively less popular. The only thing that changes is the rate and exactly how. Once they peak its all downhill. The stable of daybreak games show no sign of engine/graphics overhaul or a design demo/rebuild it means EQ2 is only going to get worse. There will be no surge in members, there will be no huge upswing in QOL design decisions, it will continue to hold course going downhill but at a very fast rate. Piling on new junk against vocal player objection and leaving old things to rot and be broken.

People trashing the game or not defending it is not what is going to make people leave. If that were the case I could take credit for Rev folding because I was in discord telling a handful of people 'cmon, quit already' However I suspect EQ2 dev team making bad decision after bad decision and treating customers like opponents instead of partners had a lot more to do with it especially since that's what made me leave.

I can absolutely understand people staying with the game because of their in-game friends. Any idea its because the game is 'good' or hopes they will start taking player feedback seriously has been laughable even before they switched to Daybreak. EQ2 is a coma patient and Daybreak is a despicable doctor just looking at it for organ donor parts.

 

Welcome to the forums Cyrrena

I took Kander's advice as I didn't like what was being done to EQ2 from a design and mechanics point of view and left the game.
I do not post on the official forums anymore and I only occasional read them care of following a link posted here.
I used to read the Guild Recruitment forum to gauge population/interest but as pointed out above they are as dead as the rest of the game these days.

Currently I am getting an enlightenment care of Warframe's as to how you can run a fair Free to Play game with both micro and macro transactions. This is a conversation for a different thread but DBG could learn a lot from looking at how this game is structured.

 

I have to believe they got sick of hearing this from me. "These are solved problems." grouping, raiding, cash shop, soloing, quests, PQ's, on and on they had other games doing things EXTREMELY WELL to draw upon and for years they refused to take note. There is no charm in being antiquated when its burdensome with no alternative other than leaving the world outright.

One of several reasons I believe they would rather ride the game to a profitable death than try to genuinely keep it going. There is a 100+ item list of things they could do to keep the game alive that would take minimum to moderate effort and every day they don't do a single one.

 

This is a strong point and to be honest: Once I read this myself the deal was signed for me and EQ2 was hit by the "uninstall" button. No player comment could have made me do that - but such from a dev ...
I was one of the very first characters created on the servers once and I had highest respect for the whole team working on the games.

But the liberty some of the staff have been taken lately was too much - even for me. I pretty much think that HE is one of the biggest issues EQ2 has and I was looking for his name when they announced the latest layoffs (yes - I am at that point and I do hate myself for that because I know he is a good guy by heart and none of the folks who got the boot should have gotten it around that time of the year).

But if you dare to voice criticism directed towards some certain people (and usually it is directed at them rightfully) you often get the "but if he wouldn't do it - nobody would". I could tell some additional stories that are more like "insider stuff" than "public stuff" to show how he is running part of the game to death quickly - but with professionalism.

And if you try to tell them why you don't like the game at this point and what would be required to make you like it again it always feels like a) you have to face a forum/discord ban for that and b) they appear to be taking the exact opposite direction with design decisions. But if all their decisions have been ok and the right direction - why is the game's status what it is per today?

Go back to launch time and try to remember how crowded it was everywhere. Check how much community tried to get going.
Compared to today ... you know it.

Instead of taking suggestions serious our fellow players on the OF are more into trying to shout everybody down because they don't want to hear the problems. Instead they should really try to understand those points.

But pointing there to the forums here crying something like "oh mommy they are soooo mean to us over there" is the wrong way. Didn't you ask yourself "hmmm - why can't they discuss that here on the OF where there is a good chance that devs might take notice and use all that to eventually improve the game?"

The OF are nothing else but a marketing instrument these days. If you really want to discuss the game you need to go someplace else (*cough* here *cough*) and even then it appears you will find "community *cough* managers *cough*" hunting you down for it and dealing retaliation towards your game/forum accounts.
Some years ago the rule was "we cannot control what someone posts outside of our jurisdiction" - apparently that changed.

 

/Wave to Cyrrena
I'm in the same boat. I enjoy the game.
For me, I am not sure whether I will be playing it in 2 years time though so I decided not to get the lifetime sub.
In addition to that, with recent moves in Daybreak I also wonder about the future of the game and decided that my yearly sub will suffice since I cannot be sure what the future holds with this company, their moves are so abrupt.
Will see you in the Official forums some time .

 

Greetings Alarra.

I keep my 3 month sub going and that is all. I only sub my main account now and I have some kronos to sub the spousal units account and our additional accounts should I want to use them.

Everybody is entitled to their opinions and I respect that. I do not respect people lurking on the EQ2 forums and then "calling" me out on other forums. You want to call me out, fine and dandy, do it on the forums that I posted on. Seriously, when I get 11 forum messages from different people telling me that I am being trashed on EQ2Wire forums because I stated nobody has the right to tell others how to spend there money, there is an issue.

I am the first to say I do not like Kander's attitude and I sent a message to DBG about his attitude and how he is treating the customers they have. I always attempt to be respectful no matter who I am responding to or in a post that I may create, I cannot say that most others behave in the same manner. When I respond to someone calling me out here about something I posted on the EQ2 forums, then I am sensitive and have my head in the sand. I am neither of those things. I am well aware of the warning signs of a game sunsetting. I have been in MMORPG's since inception and have been utilizing the internet well before it became a household thing. I am also one of the first to tell people to grow a thicker skin and stop looking for things to be offended by.

I love the game, I play the game, I pay for the game. When none of these things interest me any longer, I will walk away and not look back. I did this with UO. I had 15 paid accounts, there was no such thing as free to play and after being in the game and being a volunteer for quite some time, I became a paid GM. I put up with decisions I did not agree with and did not like and when I got tired of hoping for the better, I let all of my houses decay and all of my items either be looted or decay and I never looked back. They are still going, they have a dev team of 3 I believe, but 20+ years later, they are still going. I have played many MMORPG's over the years, when there are things I like in a game, I stay, I play, I pay.

I have not called any of you names, yet I have been called names. I respect that you may still love the game but not the direction it is going or with some or all of the changes that have been made. I have tried to do things to build the community, I hosted a Faire on AB but invited DBG employees, all the guides, and every player from every server to join us on AB, just to meet new people, have fun, relax, etc. I did not demand that anybody help me. I was willing to do everything myself and fund the entire venture. Tekka donated items for the raffles, a very nice player from Maj'Dul came and helped hand things out and assisted with the running of the event. I had another fellow from AB also donate items that we gave away like swag, no raffle involved. We had a nice time, at points we had more than 100 people on Mara and only 2 people trolling and saying nasty things to others, the Faire that was to be 2 hours turned into more than 6 hours. I am still in touch with a few of the people that assisted and a fair number of the people that attended.

I guess all I am trying to say is, be respectful. You may not like me or my opinions, that is your choice. But if you have something to say about something I said, say it where I will see it, which is most likely where I said it in the first place. And there is no reason, to call anybody a name because you do not agree with them.

I have the utmost respect for Feldon and Niami and for everything that they have done and continue to do.

 

First: The official forums are heavily moderated with a distinct bias, which is why we discuss things here. So your assertion to 'call out' on them is disingenuous.

Second: YOU are the one that posted something nasty. And that behavior was pointed out here.

Third: I don't know who 'reported' that you were being 'trash talked', but they lied. Plain and simple. And if you think that being called on your bad behavior in a single post, that wasn't even directly commented on further other than to say it had been deleted is 'trash talking' - that's on you.

Fourth: NO ONE HERE has told anyone how they should spend their money. NO ONE HERE. YOU inserted that. NO ONE HERE has told folks not to play the game. NO ONE HERE has told anyone where and what they can and can't post, or should or shouldn't post except YOU. So get that out of your head. (if you have evidence otherwise, PM me)

Fifth: Take your own advice and grow a thicker skin. Your bad behavior was pointed out, that's it. Nothing more.

Sixth: You have not been 'called names'. Your bad behavior has classified you with what is collectively referred to as 'Bubble Gnomes'. The EQ2 Bubble is a very real thing. If you would like to discuss it more, PM me.

Seventh: I DID donate to your raffle, and help promote it. Now, think about what led up to that. There was a vigorous disagreement about your viewpoint, and that you were willing to make any number of alt accounts to 'prove the community was still thriving and healthy'. It was only AFTER you recognized that was wrong that I agreed to help.

Finally. You're asking folks to be respectful, when your first post here opens with accusing people of 'being nasty', when your own 'nasty' comment is what prompted the post in question.

Really think about that. You didn't start a discussion. YOU attacked.

If you want to discuss any of this further, feel free to PM me here.

 

You seem to be missing a very important point. People can't do that 'over there' due to the high incidence rate of ninja deletion of posts. You're quite right that there's an issue, but it's not 'over here'.

 

I appreciate much of what you said above. I also appreciate you coming here to present it.

A couple of things.

First, the reason I made that post here is because it would not have been permitted o the OF. In fact, I likely would have been punished for confronting it.

Secondly, what drew my attention to your post was that:

(1) I found it somewhat nasty and disrespectful of folks who have every right to be upset or suspicious of the offer, and

(2) That particular post was attempting to assign blame for the game's woes on to the people who feel they have been injured by the behavior of DBG, as opposed to DBG itself.

Those are charactetistics of what we call "bubble gnome behavior", and thus the reference to it. I wasn't being critical of you as a person, but of the behavior. I did not articulate that adequately, so that falls on me as a failure on my part.

Now, I am wrong a lot, and I'm open to correction when I am. I also respect you for coming over here to confront the issue and offer clarity.

I suggest to all those folks who were so enraged or offended that they felt compelled to send you a pm about the post sign-in and speak for themselves.

Granted, one cannot hide behind moderation here, and one to has to be able to defend their postion, but also, we have the freedom to speak openly.

 

Feel free to offer suggestions as to where since the official forums are extremely unreliable in such matters. That's why people are posting here, not to hide or talk trash behind your back. They don't want their responses being wiped out because it didn't sit well with a mod or dev for not towing the line 100%. Even a link to official forum posts in this thread is invalid because they deleted YOUR POST on the official forums.

 

They won't do that - they are acting very cowardly (<-- note, this is addressing the behaviour, not the person or persons involved).

My forum handle here is almost exactly the same as there, and as an adult I have no issues with owning my opinions. This is not EQ2Flames, so no trolling is permitted, but unlike on the DBG forum, respectful discussion where you will be required to defend your position is permitted.

Cyrrena, look at those who sent you the pm's telling you quite wrongly that you were being 'trash talked' and called names. Are they your friends? Because if you don't know them that well, you should consider what their motivations could be. Think about it.

I see that the lifetime membership has all sold out now - waiting for the "due to high demand, we are going to release a few extras - get 'em now!!" post.....