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EverQuest II: Chaos Descending Expansion Announced

Discussion in 'EverQuest II General Discussion' started by Feldon, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. Mermut

    Mermut Well-Known Member

    I wonder how much longer I'm going to last in the forums. I'm keeping my posts factual, non-hostile and mostly constructive, but I'm getting really, really, really, REALLY <colorful phrase> tired of being told that knowing the numbers is irrelevant to healers....
    We should mindlessly spam every heal we've got over and over and over and over again.. whether or not they're needed.

    Good little healers, after all, leave all the buffs, debuffs, dps and all those other hard and important number things to their betters.

    WHY do people think healing is less important and less optimizable than dps?
    DPSers would be storming the offices if the were served the same kind of treatment in zones but they're all busy telling healers that it's just FINE for healers.

    @#@(*$%@!)#*#$)!@#(#$*@#
     
    • Appreciation Appreciation x 4
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  2. Castegyre

    Castegyre Active Member

    Resource management should be very important, not mildly annoying.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. RhodrisNZ

    RhodrisNZ Geographically Challenged

    I wonder what will happen to groups for heroics and raids when healers stop being available due to a) not being valued, and/or b) no longer knowing how their class actually works, and then switch to DPS roles?

    Who is going to waste their time playing a class that is no longer effective?
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  4. Castegyre

    Castegyre Active Member

    There are always people who have to be a certain thing. Tank, rogue, archer, healer, whatever; some people will stick it out through anything. At least until they rage quit.

    Just look at rangers in EQ1. :p
     
  5. Fuli

    Fuli Well-Known Member

    Well, according to Mermut's new best friend, Chaotic Leach doesn't matter because healers only press the same 3 or 4 buttons and in the same order of rotation, regardless of the random effects of the debuff.

    Then he called her responses "flippant".

    THIS......****.....IS.....GETTIN' REAL!

    /popcorn
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2018
    • Agree Agree x 4
  6. Mermut

    Mermut Well-Known Member

    What's real sweet? Check out the toons he's listed on eq2u... none of them are over 100..
    He's trying to lecture me on heal mechanics when he hasn't played in at least 1 expac.. possiblye more. And healing mechanics have changed big time.


    And of course he dismissed my data and information.... if you can't beat them, insult them!
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  7. Adoninilol

    Adoninilol Member

    You do realize I can read what you're saying here, Discord, etc. No matter where you go? If you wanna sit here and try to attack me on another forum and actually be able to discuss the issue at hand without being nazi moderated by the forum mod and hard headed devs lets do it.

    I'll post here too if you want, you're both misunderstanding basic eq2 knowledge, and assuming that your classes are completely changing, when they aren't.

    I play primarily on TLE so I put my TLE toons in my signature. I apologize, regardless of if I play on live or not isn't relevant. The things i'm saying still hold value/are correct and healing hasn't changed in 7-8 years. The only difference in healing since I played hardcore in the #1 guild on live 2 years ago is bleedthrough, which isn't a hard mechanic to figure out one would think~

    Yes, healers only press the same 3 or 4 buttons, when they have to heal. Its healing in everquest 2. Please enlighten me to how i'm wrong, i'd really love to be taught a large lesson. Ascensions are the bulk of your other dps, they just took up where the profession abilities used to be. Obviously no one is telling you to spam heals 24/7.

    As far as "dismissing" your data, I never dismissed it. I replied, stated that it doesn't matter if they hit for 80% less because you still have no other buttons to press.

    You have:
    Wards
    Torpor
    Ancestral Ward
    Umbral Warding

    Oberon
    Soul Shackle

    Direct Heals:
    Transcendence
    Rejuvenation
    Ritual Healing
    Other ****:
    Ancestral Channeling
    Spirit Aegis (Lol?)
    Spirit Tap
    Prophetic Ward


    Please tell me what buttons you would cast non stop if it wasn't for the ones bolded, the remainder are either not wards, therefore hold no relevance to the shaman class, or aren't up enough to be considered data worth caring about due to the limited amount of time they are relevant. Or if those "emergency" or "temporary" buttons don't perform as anticipated, don't cast them. (I.E. Ancestral Channeling, Spirit Aegis (although this one is more of a precast before large aoe or spike in damage).

    If your wards have so much bleedthrough, figure out what heals out of the two hand heals listed do more and press them between wards (I know there isn't 100% bleedthrough!) and spam group heal. It's really not that complicated and you're trying to play the victim here in a situation you're really just overreacting to.

    No one is arguing that this isn't some stupid system that they have developed.

    Obviously its retarded that my spells hit for less than tooltips, or differ wildly from spell to spell, but what you're failing to realize; it's a beta. Numbers change, i'm sure all your heals will get a baseline debuff based on the class or type of heal (wards for example to scale them down to other healers heals).

    Obviously they shouldn't give people 100k potency and not scale up HP for anything other than wards to matter and have to implement failed systems like Bleethrough.

    The DPS analogy fails beacause DPS classes have 20-25 buttons they could potentially be casting at all times, compared to healers where they only have at most 9 "heal" buttons and obviously as you know you don't press every defensive temp possible at once, that much should be obvious.

    If dps however was four main buttons and the rest were large damage buttons centered around moments when the mob's "shield" goes down or something like that and you blow the big buttons then dpsing would play the same as a healer.

    If you have a response to this, hit me with it.

    I feel like we're just gonna go in circles of you trying to say I don't think your heals not hitting for tooltips isn't relevant/imporant. What i'm really getting at is that it doesn't change how classes work.

    We can sit here and do the same ability layout I just did for any other class and you can say I'm an asshole or whatever and don't understand the game.

    Keep in mind i'm someone who has mained Templar, Fury, Warden, and Mystic, and been forced to player a channeler (loltothemaxonthisoneboys) on a few occasions in guilds like(all of which were top 10, relevant, and I was the top performing person in the class if not the highest performing in the world at the time.):

    Unrivaled
    Zenith
    Fatality
    In the past 6 years, if you wanna go back even further I was a warden in DoV/SF In Oda Clan/Saints/Core and cleared all but wing 3 in UFD and cleared most of DoV on a warden.

    [​IMG]
    And yes, I'm a giant mean cuck, Rawr XD!
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Adoninilol

    Adoninilol Member

    You also claim you're a warden and a mystic, warden has 0 relevant debuffs to any situation and mystic has one that does anything noticeable.

    The rest of the time you cast wards, then wards, then wards. Bolster/Stampede are obvious buttons to press between heals/prepull in the former.
    Warden you cast the ward you got, then heal over times no? Or am I missing some major point to this class? Sandstorm/Tortoise shell I guess you cast on cooldown/when you need to time them but the latter has lost relevance in the last few years heavily.
    Your profession dps buttons mean nothing. Smash ascensions between heals.

    I posted this on the official forums too, but it still rings true today and is relevant for the most part.
    "Healing is really simple and I don't understand why people suck so much at it, so here is how to not suck at healing. You cast heals. Yes, it really is that simple. You just cast heals, and you keep casting heals. You keep casting heals even if the tank doesn't need heals. You are just always casting heals, especially the group heal and group reactive. You don't wait for people to need those heals, you just cast them as soon as they are up. Half of what you are casting for is proc's, and this is why you also keep reverence up, because it proc's stuff. Don't wait for reactives to run out before casting them again, just cast them as soon as they are up for the proc's. If the tank is really getting his **** pushed in after you have casted repent, both reactives, and the group heal, you start casting your direct heals while the other **** is down. I don't care if the tank is at full life, you cast the direct heals anways because he might not be at full life when the heal lands, and after the heal lands you'll have a reactive or group heal up again to cast. Precasting cures. Go into options, particle effects, put the particle quality on something other than low, the min and max distance to the max, and the max particle size to 0, and the number per character to 1 (you may also want to increase your shader distance for some mobs under performance). This lets you see casting animations. Learn casting animations that mobs do and start to time cures to hit right after the animation finishes. It makes life easy. If your gear choices don't suck, and you follow these simple instructions, you won't suck either. Disclaimer: This applies to all healing classes, not just Templars. You should be casting your heals regardless and not waiting for **** to happen before doing it."

    If you can't figure out when to heal/not heal and cast dps buttons, take above as a good measure as to how to be a good "healer" in everquest 2.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Errrorr

    Errrorr Active Member

    I kind of see both points here.

    The fundamentals of healing aren't overly going to change. You'll likely prioritize wards as you did before, and same for other class heals. There may be slight variations but not much.

    I think the major issue though, is there is no way to tell the difference from one zone to another, and the impact it has upon said heals. If zoning into a T1 zone reduces group ward by 50%, but in a T2 zone it's 90%, you're going to have to likely use more single target wards across your group, or be more prepared for spot healing.

    The whole hidden debuff mechanic is a pile of **** really. Why they couldn't just increase HP pools to be in line with the absurd amount of other stats I don't know.

    All this mechanic does, it cause extra confusion. That is not fun for players in any way. See Potency Mitigation last expansion for example. I bet at least 25% of the playerbase still have no clue how it even works after 12 months.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Adoninilol

    Adoninilol Member

    Once again, it falls into the four buttons that you can press that have relevance.

    You can't sit there and not cast group ward while waiting for single now can you?

    I also feel like you summarized the entire idea better than others.

    The debuff is stupid, as is potency mitigation.

    I said this when they added it, why add mitigation to stats instead of just limiting the amount of stats players have?
     
  11. Meneltel

    Meneltel Active Member

    I played a holy paladin in WoW (yes, I know, The Game That Shall Not Be Named, deal with it!) and healed until I had a group try to kick me for lowest dps… tank had to remind them I was the healer and no one had died OR had I called for a mana break as well as when the DPS wandered off as the tank pulled a boss... and the doors closed leaving them outside, I was the ONLY person with the tank and between us we killed it. He made it clear that if I was booted, he was leaving with me.

    I thanked the tank after the run and told him not to bother /Friending me as I was never healing for a randumb group again. And I never have.
     
  12. Mermut

    Mermut Well-Known Member

    I have never played any of my healers by only pressing 4 buttons over and over and over again.. EVER. If you think that is the height of healing... *shrug* you do you, I guess. Have fun being a mindless spam heal bot.

    But that isn't the point. There is NO REASON why healers shouldn't have the information about the debuff.
    Why EXACTLY should healers be denied that information?
    Not why do YOU think it is irrelevant, but why should we be denied the information?
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Fuli

    Fuli Well-Known Member

    I am enjoying the debate!

    And for the record, the stuff i say here differs from what i say on the OF ONLY because of self-appointed moderators who are report happy, and the DBG content police. I have no problem if people read what I say here.

    All that being said, from a philosophical perspective, I am firmly in Mermut's camp on this one.

    Just a dumb, not fun mechanic, and healers should know what their abilities should and are doing.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  14. Kokorobosoi

    Kokorobosoi New Member

    I’m in the healer camp on this one. As a dps I really want my healer to be confident in what their heals/wards/whathaveyou are doing.

    I mean- too big of a surprise for the healer could very well be a nice dirt nap for the rest of us. Pots only go so far.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  15. Adoninilol

    Adoninilol Member

    I never once said you shouldn't have information about the debuff, but thanks for drawing blatant conclusions.

    Saying it's irrelevant information doesn't equal me saying you should be denied information.

    I bolded that one too, please read it this time.

    I already tried to explain to you why the actual value of the debuff doesn't matter but you don't listen/can't come to conclusions yourself.
    "No one is arguing that this isn't some stupid system that they have developed.

    Obviously its retarded that my spells hit for less than tooltips, or differ wildly from spell to spell, but what you're failing to realize; it's a beta. Numbers change, i'm sure all your heals will get a baseline debuff based on the class or type of heal (wards for example to scale them down to other healers heals)."
    If you missed it, clearly you did. Let me help you.

    You also missed the point where I said when you have to heal, I even underlined it I believe? I raided with Wonsokman the best shaman this game has ever seen, and several others, and they all say the same thing. You ward, then you ward, then after you cast a ward, you cast another. You rinse/repeat this process until the end of the raid night. Any moment a ward is not on you are failing as a shaman, everything else is secondary. I'm awestruck that you believe there are more buttons to this class, other than hitting ONE debuff, TWO buffs (bolster/stampede) and smashing ascensions when you have wards up and are just sitting there.

    You can literally single target ward more than one person and be more useful than sitting there dpsing. If one person dies you lose more dps than you gain by ever dpsing as a healer.

    Sure it's changed a little with ascensions, and your dps buttons do *more*. But those are also only up so often compared to the four buttons I bolded.

    But when it all comes down to it. You press the four buttons I bolded on repeat until raid ends. You can either lie and say you don't, or just agree and leave my internet notifications tab.
    Debate doesn't equal slaughter and blatant disregard for what i'm saying.

    You obviously didn't read it either because I already said its a dumb mechanic, but hey. Go off buddy.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Adoninilol

    Adoninilol Member

    Their doing the same thing, different numbers, did you read at all?
    /thread
     
  17. Fuli

    Fuli Well-Known Member

    Perhaps you can show me where i referenced anything you said?

    I simply stated my position, which, i also clearly stated was a philosphical one, and one that i believe is consistent with the underlying point Mermut is making.

    I mean, was there more to what I said that I missed when I said it?
     
  18. Endymion

    Endymion Active Member

    [​IMG]
    Coincidentally, I now feel as old as Obi Wan is in that picture.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Adoninilol

    Adoninilol Member

    Heh, kinda crazy that "i don't just press wards" shamans are now in top guilds eh?
     
  20. Mizgamer62

    Mizgamer62 Active Member

    Adoninilol don't you primarly play on the Fallen Gate server? That section of the forums is where I normally see you commenting. Have you played on live for the last couple of expansions? Not trying to be critical, just curious really.
     

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